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HD210 VGA out to composite in

Charly Harloff

December 01, 2016 22:32

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Hi there,

I have some HD210s which I want to connect to Hantarex CRT monitors MGG EQ/3. These offer BNC Video, Super VHS, Scart and RGB-I TTl (DSub9 CGA) inputs. I followed the guides being around in this forum but didn't succeed, yet.

As far as I understood, the suggested setup is:

- uprading firmware

- using last BA version

- connecting HD210 VGA port (Pin 3 and ground) with yellow composite Video Input of Scart Adapter (going into the Hantarex via Scartport)

- Configuring BA presentation with HDMI output connector and PAL-BG output type

I tried many other BA configurations and scripts being around in this forum, but all I get are greyscale quirky retrace lines. When the HD210 starts up I can see some grayscale blocks which might indicate the loading progress bar, but I wasn't able to get a glimpse of normal picture.

Any help is very appreciated!

Best, Charly

 

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11 comments

• 0
  
  Charly Harloff December 01, 2016 22:34

  PS: I wasn't able to test the setup with a Hantarex, yet, but with an ordinary CRT TVs Scart Port...

  An overview of the Hantarex ports can be found here:

  http://i.imgur.com/1kOfroa.jpg or here http://www.the-block.org/equipment/hantarex-eq3-29/

• 0
  
  Brandon December 01, 2016 22:40

  A VGA to RGBHV cable with the Blue line connected to the BNC Video should work.

  http://www.pchcables.com/50fomasvto5c.html

  Or you could use a VGA to RGB cable with RCA connectors and appropriate adapter.

  The Super VHS (S-Video) input would give you better picture quality, but I don't know of any direct off-the-shelf adapters.  You could use a VGA to RGBHV cable with a BNC to S-Video adapter like this though.

  http://www.listeningpost.co.nz/Second-Hand/used-interconnects-cables-leads-theater/S-Video-BNC-Adaptor-Cable-__I.149916__C.19211__N.25869

• 0
  
  Charly Harloff December 01, 2016 22:52

  Thanks for the fast reply! Your second suggestion "VGA to RGB" is what I tried without success...

  I'm wondering, if this is a hardware/ cabling, or a software/ BA configuration issue. Should the startup screen of the HD210 always be shown correctly? Or does this step already incorporate the BA settings (resolution and signal output type)?

• 0
  
  Charly Harloff December 02, 2016 20:48

  Finally, I got it working with the suggested VGA out to composite video (via Pin 3 and ground of the VGA adapter) and using the script posted in http://support.brightsign.biz/hc/en-us/articles/218067017-Can-BrightSign-players-output-component-and-composite-video-.  

• 0
  
  Brandon December 02, 2016 23:27

  Great to hear you got it working.

• 0
  
  Moe September 25, 2020 17:30

  Picking up this old post since it is exactly the setup I am currently working on. I got the VGA to composite solution running, but since the quality of composite is limited I wonder if anyone got S-Video or component working?

  The Hantarex has two options to connect RGB: D-Sub-9 or Scart.

  I tried to connect an HD222 to the Hantarex with VGA (D-Sub-15) to D-Sub-9 cable), but just got a flurry image. VGA to SCART didn't work either. So I wonder if anyone managed to get Brandons' second suggestion "Or you could use a VGA to RGB cable with RCA connectors and appropriate adapter." running, or maybe at least the S-Video setup?

  Or maybe component does not work because the Brightsign doesn't output RGB?

   

• 0
  
  Brandon September 25, 2020 19:02

  VGA is RGB - if you still have the output format set to Component, NTSC, or PAL, it won't work as those will be outputting YPbPr/YUV rather than RGB.

  You should be able to output computer resolution/rates directly to the DB9 or SCART connector if the monitor supports the resolution/rate.
  SCART is usually RGB though sometimes there's a switch.  It can also be directional if you're using an adapter.
  Start with 640x480x50p then go from there to see what the display supports.  You can run the Video Mode Test from the Diagnostic Web Server's Diagnostics tab but make sure you have about 20 minutes of uninterrupted time to watch the display - or set a camera to record what shows up.

  _________________________________________________________________________

  Friendly reminder, the community forum is intended for user-to-user discussion.  It is not regularly monitored. For troubleshooting problems and to ensure a timely answer from a BrightSign representative, please submit a support ticket.

• 0
  
  Moe September 25, 2020 21:50

  Thanks a lot for this clarfication, Brandon!

  I checked VGA with 640x480x50p, but it only shows flickering distorted parts of the image, both with VGA-to-DB9 and VGA-to-SCART cable.

  Perhaps the Hantarex CRT doesn't work with 640x480? In case cables were directional (the wrong way), would they show a picture at all? Nevertheless, maybe other specs of the cables are wrong.
  Native resolution of the screen (and of the videos that are usually played on it) is PAL, and since VGA output doesn't seem to allow this, but only 640x480 and 800x600, this will probably not work. Although at https://www.avforums.com/threads/hantarex-mgg-28-rgb-connection-options.1806436/ they say the older versions of the screen are supposed to support 800x600. I will try 800x600 and also check if any of the adjustments possible through the OSD might improve anything, but am not very optimistic about that.

  In the end it seems using composite will be the only option in case I want the exact PAL resolution?

• 0
  
  Brandon September 25, 2020 22:16

  I may be recalling incorrectly but I believe the SCART directionality had to do with composite and S-Video, so you might get a picture missing color, if you get a picture at all.

  If it's native PAL try 720x576x50p or even 720x576x50i if it's interlaced, though those are "video" resolutions so I'm not 100% sure what colorspace will get chosen.

  It'd be worth trying a few of the 60 Hz outputs just in case too.

  If you want to be thorough, connect the display to the player with each connection (VGA-DB9, VGA-SCART) and run the Video Mode Test for each to see what resolutions come up.
  
  Check the menu to see if there are options on whether to accept RGB or YUV/YPbPr, and also if there is an option for Sync on Green, enable that.

  Assuming neither the DB9 nor SCART connections accept signal, S-Video would be the next-best quality.

• 0
  
  Moe October 02, 2020 19:08

  Thanks Brandon!

  The sync on green option improved things, a sharp image via SCART connector is possible now.

  However, it still causes problems - I tried the Video Mode Test, and the NTSC and PAL resolutions show up sharp (with VGA-SCART cable, VGA-DB9 was worse), but with incorrect color. They start in green, then the monitor changes them to a blueish tone, with white being light blue. Strangely, they also scale in sligthly different sizes.
  Connected via Composite the colors of the Video Mode Test panels were fine, just the text draws lines until the border of the screen, image quality is rather low. 720x576 doesn't work at all, neither via SCART nor via Composite.

  (Side question: not all of the resolutions that show up in the Video Mode test are available in all combinations in BA - e.g. choosing component output only allows PAL-component, not PAL-BG, but PAL-BG also shows up sharp with the HD222 being connected via DB15->SCART and the Hantarex being set to RGB input. So I didn't really get how I could figure out the actually working resolutions of the three output settings, especially checking the difference between VGA and component output. But as far as I understood VGA is no option anyway, since the Hantarex doesn't seem to display the 640x480 and 800x600 resolutions undistorted. A shame since if VGA is RGB I suppose this at least would show up correct colors.)

   

  The bad thing: I realized not even the composite setup does work well - publishing a PAL video (selcected: HDMI output and PAL-BG) ends up in a video which is significantly zoomed in, only a part of the image is shown. This behaviour happens to all available settings, NTSC and PAL.

  I connected the player to a LCD screen (DELL U2711) with component and composite inputs, and it had the same zoom in effect on both connections. However, at least the colors via component were ok (and it played more resolutions, like 720x576), so the Hantarex seems to have a problem with YUV?

  I feel kinda stuck now. Connecting a WD-TV to the Hantarex via composite brings up a pretty nice image and plays the video flawlessly without any distortion or zoom-in-effect, the same with other cheap media players (Sansun). However, I really would like to use the Brightsigns, and use component (priority 1), S-VHS (prio 2) or at least composite.

  Did anyone else find a properly working combination of BS and Hantarex/Barco and could give me any advice? Or Brandon, do you have any idea how this zoom effect could be avoided? Maybe it's better with S-VHS (don't think so, though), but I don't have an adapter cable from DB15 to S-VHS. Wonder if it's worth a try to get one, or if there are any other things I could test or tweak.

• 0
  
  Brandon October 02, 2020 19:41

  The green video modes are likely YPbPr modes (all the video-oriented modes including NTSC and PAL) - those will show up with a green tint when sent to a device expecting RGB.  The blueish tone is a bit puzzling, sounds more like what happens when the analog red line isn't functioning.

   

  The Composite, Component and S-Video options in BrightAuthor are designed for DB15 to SD TV connection, so non-RGB colorspace.  VGA is inherently component (separate Red, Green, and Blue lines).  Since the display seems to be expecting RGB, I would leave the settings at VGA or HDMI.
  Most modes will send the same signal out all its available video connectors, even if that signal isn't commonly used on that connector, hence setting HDMI output and 1920x1080x60p or 1920x1080x50p resolution will result in YPbPr output on the VGA connector too.  If the display accepts that signal timing, it will display with green tint if it's expecting RGB.  If the display can be set to accept YUV/YPbPr then it will display correct color, as is the case with many plasma displays.

  Interlacing will also be a consideration here - the SD TV-oriented settings will be interlaced.

   

  Check for overscan, underscan, zoom, or a similarly-named setting on the monitor.  It may also be advisable to factory reset it if possible to ensure H-Size and V-Size types settings are not adding further appearance of scaling.

  Being that this is a CRT, there's a high likelihood that it is overscanning, so you're losing the edges.Some LCD displays that accept video like my Dell E248WFP 16:10 computer-oriented display will apply a zoom when it sees a video type signal.

   

  You may also be losing content from the presentation settings.

  Check your Edit tab, Playlist view and ensure the Zone Properties has View Mode set to Letterbox and Center and Image mode is set to Scale to Fit.  See https://docs.brightsign.biz/display/DOC/Video+or+Images+Zones for how the options work.

   

  Many devices made to output to SD TVs will either compress the content to compensate for overscan similar to the overscan options in the BrightAuthor Layout view where the outer edges of the screen do not display anything.  Overscan is a wild world of rights and wrong assumptions - sometimes two wrongs end up making what looks right (though usually with quality degradation), so finding the combination of settings for the source and output device can quickly turn into a large test matrix.

  By the way, if you haven't already set up a matrix of settings and results, I highly recommend doing so to ensure you've tested all the possible outcomes and haven't missed the one magical unicorn that works.

  If you have a test pattern image that will be extremely helpful for testing.

  _________________________________________________________________________

  Friendly reminder, the community forum is intended for user-to-user discussion.  It is not regularly monitored. For troubleshooting problems and to ensure a timely answer from a BrightSign representative, please submit a support ticket.